Martin (Mickey) Smith III is Chairman of Martin Smith Inc, a Seattle commercial real estate investment company specializing in landmark office buildings. Smith's father, H. Martin Smith Jr., established the business in 1974. Mickey Smith quit the University of Washington in 1976 to work with his father and together they built one of the city’s largest property management firms. In Part 1 of his interview with HistoryLink's Casey McNerthney, Smith discusses his family's rich history in Seattle and a fateful meeting with Henry Broderick. In Part 2, he gives a tour of Pioneer Square and many of the buildings his company has owned and managed over the decades. This People's History, abridged for length, is from an interview conducted June 21, 2024.
View From the Square
Martin (Mickey) Smith III: Where we're standing is on the penthouse roof of a building called the Occidental Mall. Occidental Mall is a building that I bought from a financial institution called Household Finance. They were a lender that took it back in the '80s from the original developer who redeveloped the building from a warehouse into an office building. I think I bought it in the mid '90s and I've owned it since then. It's been one of the most successful buildings I've owned because it has stayed leased, and it's a wonderful building, relatively easy to find tenants, although it's never easy, but it's a beautiful building. Evidence of that is I've put my own office here, and so I love the building and that's where I want to spend my time, and therefore that's why we're starting right at this location. …
Pioneer Square has been through a lot of ups and downs, and we've been part of a lot of those ups and downs. I still have a lot of confidence that it's one of the prettiest spots in downtown Seattle. There are many people who have been here a long time that care a great deal about this area, Martin Smith Inc. included, and we feel like we're a caretaker of a lot of these beautiful buildings. Even though we own them, I know that we won't own them forever, but I want them to be preserved so that people hundreds of years from now can appreciate this wonderful architecture and the history this represents to the city of Seattle ...
[Traveling through Pioneer Square]
MS: So, I'm sitting on 2nd Avenue between Cherry and what is Columbia, and this is where I started my career in the Dexter Horton Building, which is this beautiful building off to our left. Our office started in the Dexter Horton Building. We grew there from probably 1973 to probably 1980. We then got to a size where that building didn't fit us anymore, so we moved kitty-corner to what was then called the Bailey Building, but we renovated it and it was a building that became the Henry Broderick Building and is now referred to as the Broderick Building, which my dad named after Henry Broderick. We occupied a full floor in that building for a number of years.
And then across the street from the Broderick Building is the Hoge Building, and the Hoge Building is a building that was owned by the Principal Mutual Life Insurance Company out of Des Moines, Iowa. They hired us to manage it and help them get it under control, leased up so they could sell it, and that was a very profitable venture for us because we were successful doing it, and it was sold to a gentleman who lives in Singapore probably 20 years ago, and he still owns it today ...
And then over to our far right is the Millennium Tower Building, this one here, that we built in the late 1900s and it opened in the year 2000, hence the name Millennium Tower. It was the first highrise building that we developed and built, and we're very proud of it. We sold it, and it's one of those buildings I wish I hadn't sold, but it was part of the deal when we put the deal together with our partners that it would be held for five or 10 years, and then after 10 years we'd sell it. So, we did sell it, but it is a beautiful building in this part of town, and again, we're proud of it, and it was the first building that we developed in Seattle.
And then I don't know if you can catch it, but behind you is the Norton Building. The Norton Building is a landmark, literally is a landmark, historic landmark building in Seattle. Was built in the '50s by a gentleman named Norton Clapp, who was part of the family that founded Weyerhaeuser. I knew Mr. Clapp. He was a lot older than I was, but I used to see him often at lunch at the Harbor Club on top of that building. After many years after he passed away, I had the honor of going on the board of the Matthew G. Norton company and helped oversee the management of all of the real estate, including that building, which has since been sold, but I have a fun place in my heart for that building and spent a lot of time in it. So that is kind of a summary of this particular spot, and I'm going to move down a block or so and we can continue this conversation ...
On your left now is the Smith Tower, which we owned. My father bought it in the late '70s with his cousin, second cousin, Ivar Haglund. Ivar's, the restaurateur. We bought the building. It was in pretty rough shape. It was the first building that I was the official property manager of. Even before that, my first job when I came downtown to start working while I was attending the University of Washington, the elevator operators in the Smith Tower went on strike. So, my dad called me and said, "Mickey, I really need you to come down and run elevators," and so I became an elevator operator in the Smith Tower, and that's how I got to know many of the tenants because I would run up and down all day long taking people on elevator rides ... There are also lots of fun stories of real characters that worked in the building. The people, the crew that worked in the building were a wonderful crew. They helped train me because I went from elevator operator to the building manager ... One in particular was a Japanese man who is probably in his late 60s. His name was Men Maharu and he was head of the maintenance crew in the building, and by maintenance, I mean engineering crew. He really was the one that took me under his arm and explained to me when he was fixing things how he would fix them. He was very, very careful about spending too much money, and he taught me about those things, as well as teaching me how to fix things, but he was like an uncle or something to me. I will use this phrase a lot, but I have a fun place in my heart for him too.
And then the gentleman who ran the elevator crew was a man named Henry Crimmins, who was a real character. I worked with Henry for probably 20 years, and he was definitely part the history of the Smith Tower. Anyone who had been around the Smith Tower for years knew who Henry was.
[Continued to the lot in the 800 block of 3rd Avenue]
MS: I bought three quarters of this block. In other words, all of these buildings, plus half of this make a lot right here back in 1995 from Chemical Bank of New York. They had repossessed it from a developer in Seattle who was unable to develop it and unable to pay the mortgage off. So Chemical Bank took it over, and then they ended up selling it to us, and then the remaining one quarter of a block was owned by the Seattle Employee Credit Union, and I was, finally after about 15 years of trying, able to buy that parcel, which gave me the full block. We always had the idea that we would redevelop the whole block as a one big project, but through a number of reasons, one, that large of a development was just too large for us, we decided that we would just sell half the block, and so this half that you see right here was sold to a developer called Mitsui Fudosan out of Japan, who's a very large developer around the world. In partnership with my brother Greg, they purchased it from the group that owned the balance on the block. We were very happy to sell it to them. I think we paid $4.5 million for this property originally, plus $12 million for the credit union site, and we just sold half the block for $124 million. So that was a nice transaction.
Casey McNerthney: Absolutely.
MS: We were happy, and we still own the rest, half the block, which is occupied by a bunch of different companies, but the most famous is the Metropolitan Grill Restaurant, which is a great tenant and owned by one of my best friends, a guy named Ron Cohn, and has just been a great tenant to have, and it gives me a lot of pride to continue to own the property with that business being located there ...
So, we're going to move along and go up north a little bit, but as we drive down the street here, we are going westbound on Columbia. This big parking garage here, it's called the US Bank Garage, now it's called the First and Columbia Garage, but my brother Greg and I put that under contract. We were going to buy it because we love parking, and then we finally ended up deciding not to buy it, so we sold our position to buy it to a gentleman named Byron Meyer, who was the guy who owned the Dexter Horton building, and he bought it, and his family still owns it today. But we have been very involved in that garage for a number of years. No involvement today, but it's another real estate transaction that I'm proud to say that we were involved in.
On the Waterfront
[Continued to near the 1000 block of Western Avenue]
MS: This is the National Building, which is a building that was developed by Paul Schell, who was a former mayor of Seattle, and they sold it to the same gentleman from Singapore, Mr. Phng Hooi Chay, who owns the Hoge Building, and he still owns it today, and we used to manage it when I was in the third-party management business. Beautiful building, nicely restored, former warehouse building.
Now, we're approaching the redeveloped Seattle waterfront where the viaduct used to be, and it's still in the final stages of being completed, but when done, it's going to be a world-class waterfront, and what I like to say used to be the back door to the city is now the front door to the city. We own a number of buildings along this stretch of the waterfront. It's in very high demand, especially from a retail standpoint. Some of my big retail tenants down here include Elliot's Oyster House, really great restaurant on the waterfront. Argosy Cruises is one of my tenants and has been for 25 years. We bought the property. I'm going to show you Piers 55 and 56 in 1997.
CM: Is that when Trident left?
MS: Yes. That's when Trident – it used to be owned by the Trident family, and we bought it from them. They used to use the upstairs as a warehouse for the Trident store, and we thought, "You could convert that upstairs to an office building," which we did and it's been tremendously successful and is now the home of Mithun architecture, which is a big Seattle firm.
So, this is Pier 55, the red one, and Pier 56 is the green one. This is another one of our buildings called the 1201 Western Building, the red brick Building, which is a beautiful building, nicely restored, also was done by Paul Schell, and then we bought it. We traded into that from ... We used to own a building called the Seattle City Light Building, and it was bought by Expediters International to become their corporate headquarters, and we took that money and traded into this building, and it's been a very successful building, and especially since the viaduct's now no longer here, everyone has a beautiful view ...
CM: How have city regulations like the Ozark Ordinance and changes to the codes over the years affected the development work?
MS: Well, I can give you the short version. It seems like about every five years there's a new bunch of regulations that take effect that cause you to spend a lot of money in your buildings, some of which are legitimate good reasons, and some which I think are just overkill, but the most recently, there is an ordinance being seriously considered by the City of Seattle called the URM ordinance [City Council Resolution 32033], which requires unreinforced masonry concrete or unreinforced masonry brick buildings to be structurally upgraded so that in an earthquake, people don't lose their lives, which I think is totally legitimate. Most of our buildings, we've already done that kind of work voluntarily because we just find that that's responsible ownership, but it's a very expensive proposition to take some of these buildings and do that work to them, so you've got to be able to be in a position to afford to be able to do it. I think that there are a lot of unreinforced masonry buildings that are owned by – I will call it ma and pa kind of owners who are going to face a great deal of financial pain to accomplish that.
Going Up 1st Avenue
[Moved to the 1100 block of 1st Avenue]
MS: This is another one of our buildings here on your left called the Watermark Tower, and we own the bottom five floors of this building, which are office space, and the top rest of the building are commercial condominiums. This building is a very successful office project, the portion we own. We also own this building here called the Holyoke Building, the red brick building. Holyoke Building is 100 percent occupied by WeWork, who interestingly filed bankruptcy about six months ago, and we just finished renegotiating their lease, and this is one of the few locations in Seattle they're going to keep.
[Moved near the 100 block of Union Street]
MS: In the next block is a building called the Poll Building, P-O-L-L, named after a gentleman named Harold Poll, whose son redeveloped the building and we bought it from the Poll family. This is a building that I've been trying to buy for 20 years. I love the building. It just fits my character of what I like about buildings, but it's this building on the corner. We bought it right before COVID hit, so it's been a little bit of a painful ride, but it's some of the coolest office space in Seattle, and because it's across the street from the Pike Place Market, you have protected views. It's a beautiful building on the inside, a handsome building on the outside too. So, I'm happy to say that that's a building that I own and hope my family continues to own for many years. Great location. I mean, it's kitty-corner to the Four Seasons Hotel across the street from the Art Museum.
CM: What a great building.
MS: It has a great Japanese restaurant in the ground floor called Japonessa, some of the best sushi in Seattle.
CM: When you talk about the character of the kind of building that you like and why this is your favorite, what is that character that you like so much in buildings?
MS: Well, that's a hard thing to describe. It's a little bit describing like asking you what you describe, like how would you describe what kind of house do you like? But it's a mixture of architecture, and most of my buildings are older, and therefore, they have a lot more character than most brand new constructed buildings. They have much higher ceiling heights. A lot of them have exposed wood beams and brick walls and also beautiful concrete in a lot of cases, but they are the type of buildings that are appreciated by creative people ... So, my tenants tend to be architects or a lot of technology companies love to be in these older buildings, advertising agencies, those type of creative companies.
[Moved to the inside of the Terminal Sales Building, 1932 1st Avenue]
MS: So, we're in the lobby of the historic Terminal Sales Building. Terminal Sales Building is a building that I purchased, I honestly don't remember, but probably 15 to 18 years ago. To me, this building represents exactly the kind of building I love to own. It has small floor plates, great tenants, creative type people, and people that are in this building really feel like they're part of a family way more than any building that I own. They're very, very protective of the building, and they all, many of them have been here 20 to 30 years.
So, the building was built in 1923 ... I bought the building from the Diamond family. Joe Diamond, parking operator, owned this building for many years. When I was in college, when I was playing basketball, when the basketball season was over, my dad was managing this building for the Diamond family. So, I would come down in my afternoons and help with the maintenance crew in this building, and I fell in love with the building back then and always dreamed someday if I ever could, I'd love to own it, and I ended up buying the building, which is achieving a dream, which makes it kind of a fun building. …
[Moved upstairs]
MS: We're on the ninth floor of the Terminal Sales Building. This is the architectural firm of Bowen Cywinski Jackson, which is a national firm that does very high-end housing and beautiful buildings, and they've been here for probably 20 years. You can just see it's fairly open, high ceiling, beautiful columns, and beautiful windows. This is the kind of space and the kind of tenants that this building is full of. Again, we're still on the ninth floor of the Terminal Sales Building, and this gives you a good idea of the views out of this building. Because we are in front or behind the Pike Place Market, these views are protected forever, which makes it even more valuable. I'm also going to point out the beauty is you can open the window and have complete fresh air, which is awfully nice. …
I think it's one of the prettiest architecturally speaking buildings in Seattle, but it's also one of the most rewarding to run because the tenants of the building appreciate the building as much as I do, and it just makes it fun to be involved in a building that's just not a commodity, but there's a lot of passion from both the ownership and the tenants side, and that makes it much more interesting of a building.
CM: You're also saying too about the Sub Pop connection here.
MS: Sub Pop Records used to occupy the top two floors of this building in their heyday back in the '80s and '90s. I hopefully could take you upstairs and show you a little bit of what's left of their office because I remodeled that space into my office, but there was a bunch of graffiti style paint throughout their space and we kept one column kind of as a historic monument to Sub Pop's occupancy in the building. A number of Sub Pop's records that they produced had pictures of parts of this building in them, which is an interesting thing. Most people aren't aware of that.
[Moved two stories up]
MS: So, we're now on the 11th floor of the Terminal Sales Building, and this is the column I was talking about that is the remaining relic of the days of Sub Pop Records. This is their former office. When we renovated this into a more what I would call normal office space, we decided we had to keep at least this much of the Sub Pop vibe. The rumor is somewhere in here is Kurt Cobain's signature, but I have never been able to find it.
[Moved to the penthouse office]
MS: This formerly was my office in the building, and it was originally built out as the building manager's office back when the building was constructed. It had this beautiful fireplace, which is a pretty rare commodity. Also, great views both to the west and to the south, and one, I'm going to ask you to step over here and look out the window because one of the reasons why this is such an interesting view, it's the only building in Seattle that looks down 1st Avenue as 1st Avenue turns. In the far distance you can see Mount Rainier right over the top of the stadiums, which is quite a beautiful view as well. So, I spent probably 12 or 14 years of my life in this office and made a lot of memories and it's nice to be back here.
[Moved down to an outside deck]
MS: Okay. So, we're standing on the 10th floor deck of the Terminal Sales Building, and this view is, to me, one of the best in Seattle. From the south, you get Mount Rainier, you get the stadiums, you get the Great Wheel, you get the Washington State Ferries going by. The sailboat that you can see out in the middle is my tenant from Pier 55 called Let's Go Sailing. I just think this view, looking over the Pike Place Market is protected, so it'll always be here. Then if you just look to the north, suddenly you have all these highrise buildings, and these are the residential buildings that I've been talking about, which are what's going to make Seattle a 24-hour city, but they're all behind this building, which is a benefit to this building, and this is just a very unique space that we're standing in.
CM: When people look back 20 or 30 years from now and they look at all of your work that you've done for Seattle and in Seattle, what do you want people to remember?
MS: I want them to remember that somebody had the foresight and will to maintain some of Seattle's really beautiful landmark buildings and turn them into usable assets, and that is what I would like them to remember. It's just to me, these buildings are beautiful pieces of a time of our city that are important to remember because they were important part of the development of the city.
CM: I bet people must ask you all the time what's your favorite building, which is kind of like saying what's your favorite kid.
MS: Exactly ... There isn't really an answer.
Walking the City
CM: What are some of the things that you like to do when you're walking through downtown or driving through downtown, experiencing it not so much as a property owner, but just as a resident?
MS: Well, it's interesting you say that. I have a hard time walking around downtown and not being a property owner. I love walking around other cities and looking at the buildings and learning about them and admiring them, but when I'm in Seattle, I just know too much, so it's very difficult for me to be a "tourist." I end up being a tour guide is what I end up doing if I am walking around with people.
CM: How did COVID change things for your company or for the industry overall?
MS: People stopped coming to their offices, which made it very difficult to keep your tenants in your buildings because they were busy. People that were running their businesses were trying to minimize their expenses and they didn't want to pay for rent that they weren't using because the employees weren't coming to work. It's still a problem today because people, the whole work-from-home culture that's evolved started because of COVID, so that has really been detrimental to the office building industry, but again, I have a different kind of building than most, so mine are a little different.
Seattle's Retail Core
[Moved near 5th Avenue and Pike Street]
MS: This is the Coliseum Theater Building that we renovated for the Alhadeff family, and it was home to Banana Republic for many years. It's now available for lease and was just sold to a gentleman I know quite well who's going to put a great big art – I'll call it an art gallery in the building, but it's not a money-making venture. He's doing it as a non-profit, which is awfully nice of him to do, but the Coliseum Theater was, I believe, the first theater built either in the country or on the West Coast that was built for movies versus live theater. So, it's a very historic building and beautiful on the exterior, and the inside retains many of the architectural features that make it a unique building.
[Moved to the 500 block of Pine Street]
MS: When we get down here around the corner, there's a building that we were also involved called the O'Shea Building, and we helped the family renovate it. It's this building right here on the corner that Ben Bridge Jewelers just opened their new shop in, but it's a beautiful building as you can see.
CM: Yeah, absolutely. I think it was Jay Jacobs, maybe?
MS: It might've been Jay Jacobs years ago. You're right. It's funny you say that because Jay Jacobs was my neighbor (on Mercer Island).
CM: How did the opening of Pine Street here change the culture of this downtown core back in '95, '96?
MS: I was always surprised they closed it in the first place. It wasn't closed that long, but a lot of people, it had to do with Nordstrom's wanted it as part of their redevelopment of the Frederick's building and the city trying to make it more of a pedestrian mall area, but Seattle's still a pretty automobile-centric city. The more they take away people's ability to get around in their cars, I think the less it's going to work. On the other hand, you get enough people living downtown, you don't need all the people coming in in their cars like in New York City, but we're not quite there yet. So, you got to have a balance.
Back to Pioneer Square
[Moved back to the Occidental Mall in the 300 block of Occidental Avenue South]
MS: We are now back in Pioneer Square in the Occidental Mall, which I think is one of the prettiest streets in Seattle. Behind me, the whole length of the block is the building called the Occidental Mall, which is where my office is on the penthouse level. I bought this building in the mid-'90s. As I mentioned earlier, it's one of the best buildings that I have in terms of easy to keep lease because it's such a pretty building in such a pretty location. This to me is the center of Pioneer Square. I'm going to take around Pioneer Square and show you some other buildings that I have, but this is just to me, I almost feel like I'm in Paris or something when I'm on this street in this location.
CM: What is it about the history of Seattle that makes you love it so much?
MS: Probably the fact that my family has been part of that history for so long. As I said, my great-great or great-great-great-grandfather was the mayor. I just feel a connection, but I've been around long enough that I know so many people that have run so many cool little businesses, and I just feel part of the fabric of the city, and that's what makes history happen.
[Moved near South King Street and 1st Avenue S]
MS: So, this building is called the First and King Building. It's a building that I've owned for almost 20 years, and it is occupied by the State of Washington Department of Social and Health Services, but it's a nice-looking Pioneer Square building. Then across the street is the 83 King Building, which I owned for a number of years and sold it to Starbucks, and they put offices in it and then built the building next door, which we owned the land and sold Starbucks also called 505 1st Avenue. So, we helped them build that, and so this was a big development that we were part of.
Then down here further on the left hand side of the street is a building called the Provident Building, which we've owned. We bought it when it was a warehouse and converted it into an office building. It's been a wonderful building from the standpoint of occupancy up until COVID and now it's having its problems.
[Moved to the 500 block of 1st Avenue S]
MS: Another interesting story. All this raw land that you see out here used to be owned by my brother and myself, and it was 10 acres that was owned by the Washington State Shippers Cooperative Association, WSSCA, and it was a railroad yard where they'd ship fruit out of here. The State of Washington bought it from us because it became the entrance to the new tunnel under the city. So, all this raw land I used to own, and I wish I still owned it, but I don't, so it's okay. Then I'm going to take you down about three blocks just to show you the last building that I have in downtown Seattle, if you call this downtown, probably would be more considered SODO, but I'm going to take you there anyway.
CM: Okay. Sounds great.
MS: So the next property that I'm going to show you is called the 1943 First Avenue Building, but it is an artist loft building, so it's mostly art gallery, not art galleries, but art studios, and then there are some small office users mixed in as well. It's a building I bought from the same family that owned the Poll Building that we looked at earlier. It's a great little building. The rents are very inexpensive, comparatively speaking, so it stays well occupied. It has a nice little restaurant on the ground floor called Macrina Bakery. There are a number of Macrinas around now, but this was their original one. It is the only building I own outside of the downtown core, but I like this building. It's one that has the type of tenants that are fun to deal with because they're artists. You can see it. It's this building with the orange entrance.
CM: You've watched the development of the SODO neighborhood over the last couple decades. What jumps out to you about that change?
MS: What jumps out at me of the SODO? It's an interesting time down here in SODO because there are a lot of people who think that we should keep it as an industrial district, but as Seattle expands, how can you do that because you can only build so high, and the pressure to expand the downtown and residential areas close into downtown is pushing hard on this industrial district. So, there's a lot of controversy about changing the zoning down here, and it's slowly but surely happening. Starbucks put their headquarters down here. There's all kinds of pretty nice office space now coming in, but as you see around us, it's mostly low rise and mostly I would call it industrial leaning uses. There's a lot of retail. Right behind us is the Port of Seattle shipping container site that works 24/7. They are worried that if you start allowing housing right here, that people in the houses are going to complain that the workers are in their backyard all hours, and guess who is here first. They need that, the Port needs that. So, it makes it an interesting problem to try and solve.
CM: Almost like the runway at Sea-Tac.
MS: Exactly. Right.
CM: Do you think, and I know that everybody's got a different opinion on this, the stadium proposal in SODO, do you think that would've worked?
MS: Yes. My opinion is that's where it should have gone because all of the public transportation is zeroed in on the intersection of I-5 and I-90, all the light rail, everything, getting to the new stadium at Seattle Center, which is a beautiful stadium once you're there, but it's very difficult, especially if you're coming from Bellevue or out of town. So yes, I think it should have happened down here is my opinion ... Chris Hansen, who was the guy trying to do the stadium bought a lot of property, and he still owns it, and I think he'll make a lot of money with all that property. He's just really waiting for the zoning, the new rezone to happen, and it might take 10 more years. I don't think it will, but it could, and once it does and the economy improves, I think that he'll look like a genius.
CM: The time during the Boeing Bust, I think it's hard for people in the current market to imagine what Seattle was like then. How did that affect both the folks who had buildings, but also the opportunities for real estate in those years?
MS: Well, I think it was much like what we're seeing today. There was not nearly as much commercial space nor residential, but those that had it, it was the famous, "Will the last person to leave town turn out the lights." It was a difficult time, but we recovered, and I really feel confident that we will recover from our current downturn as well. As I mentioned earlier, we have so many great companies that have started, and we have such an entrepreneurial spirit in Seattle and a lot of smart people who want to do good things. So, I'm cautiously optimistic that five years from now, we'll be looking back at these times that are COVID-related nasty times and say, "That was awful, but look how great things are today." I think that that is a very real possibility, and there's no question that my glass is half full, not half empty.
