Gene Duvernoy (b. 1952) is the President Emeritus of Forterra (formerly known as the Cascade Land Conservancy), an organization that has helped to conserve more than 275,000 acres of land in Washington. For more than 30 years, Duvernoy directed land conservancy projects in places such as the Snoqualmie Forest, Upper Green River Watershed, Upper Raging River Watershed, and the East Lake Sammamish Trail. In this June 2025 interview with HistoryLink's Elisa Law, Duvernoy describes his career journey to Forterra from his involvement with the King County Farmland Preservation Program and King County Open Space Bond. He discusses how working forests came to be part of a sustainable matrix of conservation in the region. Duvernoy shares lessons he learned from Billy Frank Jr. (1931-2014), regrets about the failed Conservation Forest Bond, and his management style. This interview has been edited for length and clarity.
A Childhood Spent in Nature
Gene Duvernoy: I grew up New York on Long Island. And on Long Island, I used to wander around the fields and take summer nature courses while my brothers did Little League. So, there was a little conflict there, but there you go. I always really enjoyed being outside in what - even on Long Island - we'd call nature.
When I was a young boy, one day I was walking our dog and I remember an owl swooping down. It slid along the landscape and then swooped away. And I just was stunned at that quiet approach and disappearance. Another time I was with a nature study group, a summer nature course, and on the side of a hill. And the teacher all of a sudden disturbed the yellowjackets’ nest, and we all ran the dickens downhill. And I remember being stung. That did not interfere with my love of being outside.
Seeking "Environmental Nirvana"
GD: I went to a school called Carnegie Mellon, which I have very high regard for. I was in civil engineering and public affairs. The civil engineering was really environmental engineering way back then. And there, I really refined my sense that nature and humans should find a way to coexist through that program. As I came up toward graduation -this was the '70s, so you have to understand that - I thought, "Okay, like so many folks, we wanted to change the world." So, I wanted to figure out how the quote unquote, "Man" operated, right? So, I went to law school and business school to figure out how he held the levers and made things happen so we could change the world. So that's how I pursued my education.
Coming out of law school in the '70s... If you know the term "police power," a government's regulatory authority was more or less than its high watermark. I thought we could legislate and regulate our way to environmental nirvana. I was really thinking we had whooped this beast. It was a very progressive court still. There was much more of a progressive sense around the country, and I thought we could really clean up our environment and learn how to be sustainable. Though, I didn't know that term at the time. Nobody did.
And then, it was a grave disappointment to find out that what you may have just passed in a state legislature or county council, by the time it actually gets to be implemented, it is almost unrecognizable. I might be overstating it. But in any event, that made me think, "Okay ownership, property ownership really is the only way to really secure long-term stewardship and environmental quality of a piece of property."
The Cascade Land Conservancy
GD: We started off as Seattle King County Land Trust. And we went to the Land Conservancy of Seattle and King County. And then the Land Conservancy of King County and Snohomish. Then the Land Conservancy of King County, Snohomish and Pierce. Then Land Conservancy of King County, Snohomish, Pierce, and Kittitas. Then we went to the Cascade Land Conservancy. It's a very pretty name. And then ultimately - because we were working both in cities and ex-urban areas -we went to Forterra.
So, the Cascade Land Conservancy was started by a very civic-minded individual - you probably interviewed him - named Gerry Johnson. And he started it around 1989, as a guess. It was a pretty much a low-level affair. And in 1991, I had suggested that I could go out and find some grant money for it and manage it pro bono. I did find some grant money with a foundation called the Wilberforce Foundation. I think [we received] $40,000 at the time. And I had it as a pro bono client of mine until about 1997, when I closed down my little practice and actually came on as an employee of the Conservancy.
Our money came from very civic-minded individuals in this area, from grants we were lucky enough to win, and from smart real estate transactions. For instance, the East Lake Sammamish Trail. We bought that as a working railroad from Burlington Northern. And after a lot of difficult and litigious procedures, we were able to rail bank it as a trail.
We sold the 11 miles of East Lake Sammamish Trail to King County for $3 million, which covered all of our costs to buy it and litigate for it. And then we sold the tail, the little bit in Issaquah, to Issaquah for $1 million so they could run a trolley on it. And we put that million dollars into a revolving property acquisition fund.
So, through transactions, we were able to provide ourselves some capital to operate.
Land trusts on the East Coast (many of them, not all of them) were started by very affluent families to conserve land that they cherished and sometimes recreated in. So, land trusts back East, a lot of them started with substantial capital. Land trusts in the West, particularly in the Northwest back then - this is before Microsoft and all the rest - we were much more of a middle-class region. So, you didn't have those kind of super major donors starting to capitalize land trusts. They had to find other ways to do it.
Preserving Working Forests
GD: Randy Revelle (1941-2018) was [King] County Executive in the '80s, and the [Farmlands Preservation] program had totally stalled because of the cost of money. They couldn't sell the bonds to finance the program. They were sued and the result was they lost the window to sell the bonds at an interest rate they could afford. So, Randy during his campaign in 1980 to 1981, pledged that he would get the program going. And so, I was very willing to be the victim. Randy asked me to come in and run the program. So, we figured out how to finance, how to sell the bonds in a way we could afford and execute on the program.
I went from that Farmland Preservation program to being this staff force behind what was called the King County Open Space Bond in 1989. And then I left the county and ran the campaign, and it passed.
And back then it was $113 million, which sounded like a lot of money. So, we passed the program and then ultimately a guy named Tim Hill (b.1936), who was (King) County Executive then asked me to come in and run the program, which I did for a year or two before I took off on a bicycle with my wife for a couple years.
So, that Open Space was everything under the sun: parks, wetlands, trails, real collection of properties that we acquired through that funding. So, from Farmland to Open Space, then taking Conservancy on as a pro bono client, it was about creating a sustainable region. So, acquiring land for purposes that contributed to sustainability.
Ultimately, that led us to saying working forest land is one of those [purposes and] is part of that portfolio. So, we were acquiring a lot of other kinds of landscapes, but working landscapes became one of them.
Creating a Conservation Matrix
GD: So, the Cascade Land Conservancy was about acquiring land to create a sustainable region. It wasn't just preservation; it was making a region sustainable.
And so how do you use land to do that? It sort of dawned on us that you can preserve all these other properties, wetlands or hillsides or whatever, but they're at risk of becoming isolated museum pieces unless you acquire all of that matrix around them or conserve all the matrix around them.
So, what does that mean to conserve the matrix around them through a lot of conversation analysis? We said, "Well, what it means is you don't develop it. You don't turn it into asphalt." But a lot of it can be worked as landscape - working landscape or farmland. And that kind of matrix around these really highly pristine places that you want to keep pristine creates a healthy, sustainable landscape.
So, let us say, "Okay, we're going to separate ourselves from a lot of the environmental movement and say we prefer preserved forest, but working forests are better than asphalt." And we're going to conserve these working forests and maybe someday they'll be preserved forests. You know, no logging, but we'll conserve them right now.
And that was a very acrimonious time within our board to sort through that because a lot of folks felt very uncomfortable about a conservation group stepping into that role. And we lost a board member or two, but ultimately we decided that working landscapes is a really valid land use to conserve.
A Life Lesson
GD: Politically, a lot of times it's important to make enemies, right? But for the conservation game and sustainability, it's about not vilifying other parties but finding ways to solve their problems. Even if I'm dealing with a timber company on the other side of the table, how do I solve their problems to get to a deal? So, there you go.
Billy Frank Jr. was able to reach across. Again, I'm an outsider, but looking at Billy, who always had the future of his tribe and Indian Country at heart, his ability to work across all sectors and embrace all sectors to advance his interests: That was a life lesson.
Changes in Forestry
GD: The regulatory regime was strengthened over my career to what it is today, which, at least in Washington, is the strictest in the country after California. So, that was interesting to see that progression.
Interesting to see all of a sudden the Northwest get discovered and starting to grow significantly, where your working landscape couldn't be taken for granted. That sort of spawned this conservation effort that is a result of the last 50, 60, 70 years and the population pressures.
Dealing with sophisticated timber companies: I think they also grew in recognition that they need to manage the land differently on a more long-term basis. Now, I'm an outsider. I'm just saying that from across the negotiating table, it seemed that there was a change, not in every timber company or individual. But there's a trend in the industry of taking a longer view, perhaps. At the same time, there was a countervailing force called real estate excise trusts, which will come in and buy land and have a much shorter time horizon on the land.
So there's these two pressures going on within the industry on how they viewed the landscape. But if you buy the conservation easement or the development rights, that issue goes away.
It’s Not Over 'Til It's Over: Mountains to Sound
GD: We did a lot of acquisitions within the Mountains to Sound landscape (we being the Cascade Land Conservancy). And we went to Jim Ellis (1921-2019), you know, and he would have his list of lands that he thought needed to be conserved, and so we were part of a team of different organizations that did that.
In 1990, the [Washington State] Legislature passed a wonderful bill for the real estate excise tax for conservation purposes where a county could put together a conservation plan on landscape, put it in front of the voters, and if the voters agreed and agreed to it being funded, the county could raise as much as one percent of its real estate excise tax for conservation.
So, I got pretty excited about that and worked with other folks and put together a five-county effort to regionally put together a real estate excise tax conservation program. And we put it on a ballot in 1990. It didn't pass. The Association of Realtors opposed it and brought out the Housing Secretary Jack Kemp (1935-2009) to say it would make housing unaffordable, this one percent real estate excise tax. And we lost in every county but San Juan County, where they have this program still going and they're funding their land conservation.
But the keystone property here that we were going to conserve was the Issaquah Alps from the Sound to the Mountains. We had this whole big area that we marked for conservation. So, we featured the Sound to Mountains landscape, and ultimately we lost. But a group called the Trust for Public Lands that we were very close to brought that foolish idea we had and matured it with Ellis to where it became the Mountains to Sound and became this wonderful project. It shows that it's never over 'til it's over. You know, you might lose the campaign in the short term, but it might prevail in the long term.
Working Forest Initiative to Cascade Agenda
GD: So, one of the strategies was to hire people who know the landscape intimately, and you already interviewed one of them, Charlie Raines. We hired Charlie Raines and we used to joke that we didn't think Charlie Raines worked for us, we worked for Charlie because he knew what lands he wanted to go after. So, you hire deep knowledge of the land base.
Secondly, it's GIS analysis to target what properties [to conserve]. And then it's a mixture of strategy. Which properties are you going after? It's an opportunity in reality. Which properties can you get or which properties come to you? So, it's a mixture.
We at Cascade Land Conservancy, after we decided that working landscapes were legitimate to conserve, we pulled the three county executives - King, Pierce, Snohomish - together, which was Ron Sims (b. 1948), who is incredible, Bob Drewel up north, and John Ladenburg down south at the time. We pulled them together and created this three-county working consortium, which we called the Working Forest Initiative to conserve targeted landscapes.
Then we went out a step further and developed a Cascade Agenda where we pulled the governments, environmental groups, foresters, farmers, and host the folks together for a couple years to really analyze and target the landscapes across the region for a sustainable region.
I thought the Cascade Agenda had great promise. It was this effort to bring everyone together to say, "How do we make this place sustainable? What landscapes do we need to preserve or conserve?" That was an effort that I hope other generations revisit and revive.
"An Exquisitely Elegant Idea"
GD: Well, one [significant loss] was the Conservation Forestry Bonds. And this included Gerry Johnson and a host of other folks who came to us through Joe Euphrat. And another fellow had this exquisitely elegant idea of selling municipal bonds for forest land preservation.
Municipal bonds - if they're rated well enough - sell cheaply, so it's your avenue for cheap money. So, a nonprofit would sell this municipal bond, get this cheap money. Then, bonding would have required that it denote or separate a conservation easement to the property so it was permanently conserved or require conservation easement to be placed on it. And [they would] remove the development right so it was permanently conserved.
And because the money was cheap enough because of the bond issue, you could steward it and harvest it in a light touch to pay back the bond and ultimately either conserve the land outright or continue to work it and use the revenue from it to conserve other properties. So, it was this perpetual conservation machine. Most conservation transactions, your high watermark is at the point of closing. Doesn't get any better than that. And all you do is maintain whatever you succeed at closing. With this bond issue, your conservation grew over time. It was terrific because you had this revenue source.
Gerry formed the Evergreen Forest Trust and we, the Cascade Land Conservancy, in partnership with it, went and negotiated to buy Snoqualmie Tree Farm for a hundred-something million dollars. And Weyerhaeuser knew that we needed to get this bond funding. So, once we had that prize in hand, we worked with our delegation - Senator Patty Murray (b. 1950) particularly and Congressman Neal Dunn (b. 1953) at the time - to pass the necessary authorizing legislation to allow a nonprofit to sell municipal forestry bonds.
We worked this damn thing for two years in Congress. There, I learned a whole lot. But ultimately we got it into the final stages in the House, then we get into the final stages in the Senate. But it was tough to get 'em both to act together. And when we finally did, we lost in the final round because of some inside dealing with the legislation and other properties other senators wanted. So, we never got the authority for the conservation forestry bonds, which could have been used across the country to conserve hundreds of thousands of acres of forest land.
It would've been a game changer. Absolute game changer. It would've been this perpetual conservation machine. It would've been amazing. Not just in the Northwest, but across the country. So, I think about that loss a lot.
Growth of Forterra
GD: When I started [working with Forterra] there was nobody. Okay? I started, there was a file and I was running my own little conservation/preservation law and project practice out of my attic. And I had an assistant. And so, I said to Jill at the time, "Jill, you can work on the Seattle King County Land Trust with me supervising, and I'll pay your salary for that."
So, it had nobody. It had my assistant and me working pro bono. We started to do projects, started to expand into the different counties, and started to hire more and more people to where we needed our own office.
And it really struck me more and more that this could be a regional, really a regional force for conservation. And so, I quit my practice and came on full time and we started to expand more geographically and also mission-wise: working forests, Cascades Agenda, working in the urban space, you know. And so, as our mission and our geography expanded in our budget, we added the staff needed.
"Squeezing the Rolls" Management Style
GD: It was a management style that I picked up from my old man. You know, it was a hot summer day. I was ready to leave the bakery and go home, and then I had to follow my dad because I had my own little job there and I'd go home with my father.
And so at the end of the day, I'd have to follow him all around the bakery while he made his rounds. And I'd watch him. He had these big bins of rolls and he'd squeeze them and everything. So, I just called it "management by squeezing the rolls" because it was very casual. He just made the rounds and checked in with everybody, and also the product and all.
So, yeah. I employed that kind of thinking when I was running Forterra. It was the informal exchange with your colleagues and employees at all levels, you know. It's not X reporting to Y reporting to Z reporting to me. It was me talking directly with that line person and not about their boss, and just about how things are going and what could we do better. And, you know, it was just that kind of check-in of intimately knowing the organization that you can't get any other way but just going around and squeezing the rolls.
Forterra's Mission Grows
GD: We're a mission without a budget, which meant basically donation of lands or conservation easements. I quickly recognized that in this part of the world, there isn't enough wealth to have donated property, so I need to develop capital to buy and conserve property.
So that was one expansion of the mission. And then the next expansion was: We gotta be strategic about this. We're not just conserving land because it feels good. Why are we conserving these different lands? How do they function in terms of the landscape? And so that created the Cascade Agenda and all, and a bunch of proceeding efforts and projects.
We're a sustainability organization. We're not a conservation organization. We want to make a region that's truly sustainable in this world. It's about the land base and how you manage that land base so that your ecosystems can flourish and humans also can flourish. And not just in a way that you deplete the land base. But you hopefully enhance the land base over time so it's better and better and better. That's a very imprecise term of sustainability that took me in my own head some time to fully understand.
